Curse

capitalist · Sep 09, 2005, 05:31 PM // 17:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by asdar

This is a simple equation.

People don't need farmers but farmers need people.

I don't want to have to satisfy your need just to get the best gear in the game. I'd rather feel the satisfaction of getting the item myself.

Then farm it yourself or use a perfectly fine collector's item.

UnOrthOdOx · Sep 09, 2005, 05:35 PM // 17:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carinae Dragonblood

That's nice. I'm glad for you. I also have a job, and I make a paycheck that allows me to do all the things you mention. There is an implication you are making that only time at work is valuable to you. Is that the case? Your free time is worthless to you?

No, but my free time is not 'work'. It is...FREE TIME.

Quote:

EVERY SINGLE serious PvP player should be deeply insulted by this comment. If it was just a game, there would be no PvP Ladder, my friend. There would be no Rank/Fame emotes. There would be no Faction or Experience Points.

We are not talking PVP here. We are talking about items.

All serious PVP players want the UAS. Something I support fully, actually, because I do understand PvP players. All serious PVP players want a level playing field. There is neither honor nor glory in beating someone because you have played longer and have better items. All serious PVP players want to know that when they beat you, it is because they played better at that time, not because they had more cash, better items, or more skills unlocked.

And no, PvP should not be work either. It should be fun.

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We are not complaining about a spell 'nerf' or 'bot-nerf'. Bots are bad, and some spells needed to be rebalanced.

I am upset because everyone is taking glee in our misfortune, and being very self-righteous about how we are the cause of everything wrong with GW. We weren't making people pay 50 plat for a sword. A collectors sword is just as good. This is the market for wants, not needs.

I agree. It is the market of collecting. And, in collecting somethings value is worth what people are willing to pay.

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And on top of that we get criticized by Mother Teresa-types saying were wasting our time playing games when others are out there saving kittens, or stoping fires or pulling dead people out of homes in New Orleans. Come On!

Were not playing patty-cake here. We spends lots of time playing and then when changes are made that invalidate hundreds of hours of game time, we get rightfully upset. is that articulate enough for everyone.

Do you understand why we are upset? We spent a lot of time playing, fighting mobs, fighting in the UW/FoW to aquire these items and a cash reserve.

No, I don't understand. Do you not still have these items? Do you not still have this cash reserve?

There is still a market for those items. As I said, perfect items are still very rare. Green are often not as good (if not always not as good). The market is still there. THAT is what I don't get. If the market has changed to where 50K sword now sells for 10, so what? You might not have that 200K in the bank, but neither will you need it to buy your next golden item you are craving. You still have the same RELATIVE wealth you did before, if not the same numerical wealth. Yes, you can't sell for 100K now, but at the same time, the new person coming up has to pay 1k for all skills, can't get that kind of gold for selling their items either. So, no, while you might not have the same $ in the bank, what you will have will be worth more.

No, sir, I don't understand.

Carinae · Sep 09, 2005, 05:39 PM // 17:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by capitalist

Then farm it yourself or use a perfectly fine collector's item.

I couldn't agree more!

The reason that there are 175k items is because people are too lazy to get the item, or earn the money them themselves. Period.

Lazyness. That's why people buys gold and items on Ebay. Lazyness. But the farmers who show enough initiative to go get the items, who have a tiny bit of ambition get screwed. oh yea, WERE the bad guys.

You really NEED that 5/-1 Vampiric sword with +7 armor.

ZeR04U · Sep 09, 2005, 05:45 PM // 17:45

Most of you that 'agree with the original poster' are a bunch of n00bs. First off, green items are req. 9 by default (yuck), and are not THAT great. For example, a lot of the weapons have sundering (yuck) or zealous (yuck) and you can't even mod them. Gold items haven't gone down in price at all. Why? Because people like me and a million others still want their uber req. 7/8 even 9 gold item. Even if a green item costs 10K, and the SAME exact gold item costs 100K, people with money will buy the gold item because not EVERYONE can buy or have it.

Gold items' prices haven't dropped at all. I've been selling gold items all day for the same price I used to before the patch. Gold unidentified fellblades for 90K +, gold hammers/bows for 25-35K, its all relative.

This is a really stupid thread...

Teklord · Sep 09, 2005, 05:48 PM // 17:48

No, Farmers in general aren't the bad guys. Its the idiots that spend hours apon hours getting huge amounts of gold, or perhaps just people who do purchase off of eBay that are the problem. Because some people out there someday started saying "Daaa.. I'll give ya uber insance amount of gold for dat there 'uber' item" (aka 100K+)... its those people that are the problem.

Said it before, say it again: no item is worth 100K+. Just because some "people" (using the term loosely) can pay that much, doesn't make the item actually valued at that much.

Algren Cole · Sep 09, 2005, 05:52 PM // 17:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teklord

Said it before, say it again: no item is worth 100K+. Just because some "people" (using the term loosely) can pay that much, doesn't make the item actually valued at that much.

actually it does....in a free trade economy market value is determined by the consumer and what they are willing to pay.

EternalTempest · Sep 09, 2005, 05:53 PM // 17:53

A new person to guild wars, someone buy's his nice black dye off of him for a bargain, goes to post and onslaught with WTS Gold-Max for xxk. See's all these super high prices and thinks omg, how do I get this much gold. So it's then on to running / rushing how to make money for something that maxed out by accout restuctuions only. Unless someone tells hay there these collector's a lot of people go with the flow. The game did not start out like this and Anet proable wants it to go back.

Anet made the decission that this is the and feel it's a way to keep / get new players to make these changes in the way the want the game to go. They are using heavy handed tactics but I have not doubt they kept this in consideration. I personally love this change myself, it allows me to more on play then earning gold and to be honest the collector's where already there. A lot of people didn't realize it so they made an alt to the collector's that was obvious to the masses.

Carinae · Sep 09, 2005, 05:54 PM // 17:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by UnOrthOdOx

We are not talking PVP here. We are talking about items.

All serious PVP players want ....

Why do you take a their side more seriously than mine? It's the same game. But their 'profession' is more honorable than mine?

There is a level playing field in PvE also. If you want a uber item, go earn it. Go play until you find one or until you have enough money to buy it.

You'd say the same about a 60 inch plasma TV, wouldn't you? If you can't afford it, you have to work to get one, not petition the government to give you one.

Quote:

No, I don't understand. Do you not still have these items? Do you not still have this cash reserve?

I'm glad you asked this.

I currently have 42,000 gold. I have NEVER had more than 92,000 gold. I own one set of Grotto 15K armor, that I earned (money wasnt given to me)

I have 15 ectos, and 13 shards. I want to get Fissure Armor.

My entire inventory of sellable items is this:

1) Zealous Short Bow of Marksmanship, dmg +14% while enchanted, marksmanship +1 (18%), 1/-1 zealous.

Thats it. Was hoping to get 5-10k for this. Now won't get 1k. Fissure is a lot farther away now.

Algren Cole · Sep 09, 2005, 05:55 PM // 17:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carinae Dragonblood

1) Zealous Short Bow of Marksmanship, dmg +14% while enchanted, marksmanship +1 (18%), 1/-1 zealous.

just give it away...that bow isn't worth 10K

Teklord · Sep 09, 2005, 06:01 PM // 18:01

Just because the 'few' place an exorbitant value on an item, doesn't mean it matches with what the 'many' would value it as. And I can say (without proof) with confidence that the 'many' in Guild Wars don't have exorbitant amounts of gold - save for eBayer's.. and suprise surprse: Farmers! (or at least Gold farmers).

Farming for materials and bringing them into the economy, this I can say I love the idea of. Even though I'm no where near the stage of acquiring 75K armor.

UnOrthOdOx · Sep 09, 2005, 06:06 PM // 18:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carinae Dragonblood

Why do you take a their side more seriously than mine? It's the same game. But their 'profession' is more honorable than mine?

There is a level playing field in PvE also. If you want a uber item, go earn it. Go play until you find one or until you have enough money to buy it.

I have never once complained about farming in the least.

I originally complained that you are saying people getting green items have not 'earned' it. Have not worked hard enough for it.

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You'd say the same about a 60 inch plasma TV, wouldn't you? If you can't afford it, you have to work to get one, not petition the government to give you one.

And people STILL will have to. Gold item market IS STILL THERE.

Quote:

I'm glad you asked this.

I currently have 42,000 gold. I have NEVER had more than 92,000 gold. I own one set of Grotto 15K armor, that I earned (money wasnt given to me)

I have 15 ectos, and 13 shards. I want to get Fissure Armor.

My entire inventory of sellable items is this:

1) Zealous Short Bow of Marksmanship, dmg +14% while enchanted, marksmanship +1 (18%), 1/-1 zealous.

Thats it. Was hoping to get 5-10k for this. Now won't get 1k. Fissure is a lot farther away now.

/me scratches my head...

I don't know the bow market that well, but I wouldn't think that would sell for 5 to begin with. 1/-1 zealous is pretty crappy.

I'm failing to see your complaint, again. As you said:

Quote:

If you want a uber item, go earn it. Go play until you find one or until you have enough money to buy it.

Go farm! Go earn! Have fun at it!

But don't 'work'.

If you want a hand, I'm always game, that is if you can catch me actually online. Besides, I thought ecto/shards were dropping in price last I checked.

editted for typos (the ones my poor english can catch)

burai · Sep 09, 2005, 06:06 PM // 18:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by capitalist

Then farm it yourself or use a perfectly fine collector's item.

I also agree - no don't be surprised. My characters all have the blue collectors stuff - and they're perfectly fine. I have hung on to a few gold & purple items that are of use to me, but they are really just status symbols. Still, I'll be off looking for some nice green ones tonight

The gold item has always been a status symbol - which is why people want them. If they are pepared to pay 1000s for them, it's really not my problem. But don't immediately assume they are lazy - My first character, with which I completed every quest, mission and bonus, never got a single gold drop. I didn't even know what a 'gold whatever' was when I started to see them on the trade channel. My first thought was "So where do you get gold dye?" - duh! Still, they drop quite often now - if you're prepared to do a little light farming.

Sagius Truthbarron · Sep 09, 2005, 06:07 PM // 18:07

You can't really expect W/mo farmers to play a game based on skill?

On the subject of farming: I'm having alot of fun opening chests and either getting a really nice rune or a weapon that I can stand in Lion's Arch for 5 seconds with and say "WTS: Max Damage Gold and Purple Weapons only 600 gold"

And I even get to tell them that it's extremely defective after they buy it to freak them out ^^

It's alot easier to make money now. In two chest "runs" I got a Superior Healing rune and a Superior Vigor; a value of 40k. That paid for some 15k armor. I don't see how anyone is losing money off this.

I guess everyone complaing is just either a botter or an E-bay bussiness owner. Most of which are W/mo or Mo/W XD

scooterbug · Sep 09, 2005, 06:20 PM // 18:20

My first impression on this thread is...WOW. It's amazing how passionate people can get over a game. Reading all of the responses, I can tell who actually have done pen and paper roleplaying and those that have not. I could go on for about an hour or so replying to all the points in this thread. So I will only discuss the ones that made my eyes burn

Dragonblood....take a chill pill. Yes you have spent countless hours on the game. I have too. But really, it's just a game. No need to get your blood pressure to go through the roof. UnOrthOdOx had a point..there are things in this world that call for strong support and outcrys. The decision of a company that designs games is not one of them. Really. As for the cry for people to get upset over and at anybody who calls GW just a game...well the truth is that is what it is. It's a way for somebody to sit back, relax make friends and have a good time. Pure and simple. Don't like the rules? Since you don't have the power to change them, chalk it up to time well spend and move on. You payed $50 for a game. How many hours have you gotten out of it? Me, im somewhere in the 300-400 range. Even at 300, that's $0.16 an hour. That is a pretty good return for a game. $50 wont even get you good seat at a sporting event...and they only last for a couple of hours. If you want to go again, it's even more money.

It seems that the only people who are vocal about the changes are those that partake in farming so that can have a "cash reserve". You say that 50p for a sword is the going price. You say that if someone is willing to pay that then that is what it's worth. To me, that is attempting to justify inflating the economy so you can show off your net worth. Has anybody ever thought about the effects of farming when it comes to the big picture?

Here is something I came up with while reading this thread. New player comes into game, knowing nothing about the economy. He goes through Presearing, hopefully avoiding those people who are trying to scam black dyes from unsuspecting new players (I know not everybody does it, but it only takes a few apples to ruin a barrel). New player thinks, hey 200 gp for a black dye...cool. Goes to post searing and learns that black dye sells for MUCH more. Ok..he got scammed. He then sees all these GODLY (man, I hate that term) weapons for sale, well beyond his reach. How am I to afford those "godly" weapons he says? If they are that good...I am going to need them. They must be good if players have to go and scam new guys for cash. How do I find these weapons? Let me just check ebay....oh look, I can buy gold for 20 bucks. Well, I guess...

First impressions can be a very decisive factor for a lot of people. I'm not saying that it happens to everybody. Heck, I'm not saying that the exact scenario has ever happened. But it could.

The fact is, the only people that this update "hurt" are the farmers. Are farmers gonna like it? Nope. This game is not called Trade Wars. I'm sure that ONLY doing farming and trying to see how much you can get for "WTS GODLY GOLD MAX DAM SWORD...c/o 70k, b/o 200k" is not what the developers envisioned. I have tried to sell stuff that I have come across, of course, but not for exorbanent prices. I think the most I have ever made on a single item was a fortitude haft +25 that I sold for 3 or 4k. Heck, had a decent gold staff that had low blood requirement and 3 mods on it. Advertised it and almost sold it, but because it wasn't max damage they didn't want it. The damage on it was 10-18. I wouldn't of guessed that since it did 4 less than max made it worthless. What did I do? Either I still got it, or I sold it to a merchant. Dont know how ppl can stand around for hours selling items. Would rather play "Bordem: The Sequel".

Last point...someone mentioned that by farming that they are also helping others get good stuff. I know those may not be the exact words, but that is how I read into it. For that person...have you ever gone into ascalon and given away stuff (max dam, blue, purple, and gold items) to new players who could use them? If not, well, then that arguement seems kinda moot now dont it? I know I have done it. I have read post of others and seen others do it. That is helping an online community and fostering decency. I try and do my part to keep the economy in check.

Scooter

burai · Sep 09, 2005, 06:23 PM // 18:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sagius Truthbarron

It's alot easier to make money now. In two chest "runs" I got a Superior Healing rune and a Superior Vigor; a value of 40k.

Now you're just trying to get me excited ... too late

DrSLUGFly · Sep 09, 2005, 06:35 PM // 18:35

... ... i think the new areas are fun... maybe i'm just weird but I enjoy playing and exploring... the idea of playing the same areas over and over again to get great and perfect items has never really crossed my mind. I've logged nearly 600 hours (at least 400 in PvE alone) and I've never farmed for anything (except for the few occasions where I needed to collect 5 of something for a collectors item). therefore, they've added a new measure of excitement to the game, for me anyway. But I'm the weird one... the one that likes playing the game as an immersive world based on exploration and adventure...

capitalist · Sep 09, 2005, 06:45 PM // 18:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrSLUGFly

... ... i think the new areas are fun... maybe i'm just weird but I enjoy playing and exploring... the idea of playing the same areas over and over again to get great and perfect items has never really crossed my mind. I've logged nearly 600 hours (at least 400 in PvE alone) and I've never farmed for anything (except for the few occasions where I needed to collect 5 of something for a collectors item). therefore, they've added a new measure of excitement to the game, for me anyway. But I'm the weird one... the one that likes playing the game as an immersive world based on exploration and adventure...

And as a farmer I support you in this. I also assume that you have enjoyed yourself and have done just fine without the hated uber godly weapons.

Carinae · Sep 09, 2005, 07:19 PM // 19:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by UnOrthOdOx

I have never once complained about farming in the least.

I originally complained that you are saying people getting green items have not 'earned' it. Have not worked hard enough for it.

Well, my apologies then. I did get a bit steamed during this thread.

Let me set the record straight. People who GET the green items deserve them. However, Green items are going to be plentiful and flood the market.

They are perfect items. I have never seen an imperfect green. Look around here on the forums. Greens have existed for two days now, and look at all the types that have appeared. There are posts of people getting multiples of the same item. And other people getting the exact same item.

Why would people buy gold items when the green items are more plentiful and better?

If that wasn't enough, then consider the additional change concerning chests and keys. Lots of people saying they got Superior Vigors/Absorbtions or uber gold items.

Anet might as well have added a Uber Merchant to the game who sells perfect modded weapons for 1k.

If they wanted to adjust the drop rate, thats fine. no problem. But they opened the flood gates and this will kill the economy. Just wait a week and see.

crimsonfilms · Sep 09, 2005, 07:38 PM // 19:38

Quote:

To play endless mindless pvp?

Disagree strongly. PvP without a doubt requires more thought than PvE. Team play is much more important. Strategy involves subtle yet important considerations (instead of just 'nuking' everything in site). It is much more dynamic (as exemplified with flavor of the month builds). PvE is much more static. Come on - nuking has been used since day one. It is as relevant to PvE as it was months ago. PvP has interrupt, aeromances, tactic warriors, KD/AS, frag mes, emo (I prefer elmo

), KD ele, zoo, nec army, etc.

Farming - now that is mindless except for the build part. But with the builds being easily copied - the intellectual part of farming is nil.

Quote:

Lazyness. That's why people buys gold and items on Ebay. Lazyness. But the farmers who show enough initiative to go get the items, who have a tiny bit of ambition get screwed.

I think you give farming too much credit. There is nothing ambitious about farming except the willingness to do something tedious for exorbent amount of time. Rinse - dry - repeat. That is farming. If it was ambitious very few would farm. Last time I checked - monk sup runes are one of the most expensive. It can't be because there are over abundance of PvE monks out there. Have you tried getting more than 1 monk in South Shiverpeaks or Ring of Fire or even Crystal Desert. Nothing ambitious about farming.

Layziness? Hardly.

.02

Yamat · Sep 09, 2005, 07:48 PM // 19:48

Communist welfare state... LMAO! Go learn about politics before you spout rubbish like that.

Guild wars is a MULTI-PLAYER game... sure you can solo, but it wasn't designed for that, as we can see from the skill/build exploits that there have been. The PvE aspect is designed to get you ready to PvP, that's why there's the whole notion of unlocking skills and items.

This patch has basically made Guild Wars playable for the hardcore and the casual PvP player by giving better faction rewards and areas where you can get good items, while adding some new PvE content.

The economy was messed up... prices for anything remotely good were rediculous. Now people don't need to grind to get gold to pay for them, they can go find a green item.

Well done ANet.